FROM SALTY WATER TO DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY

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Interview with Petr Klier – film-maker, photographer, diver

We are neighbours. I have not seen him wearing a diving suit or an aqualung yet, but a camera accompanies him constantly. He is equally fascinated by sunset over country cottages as by a solitary lighthouse on rugged Norwegian shore; and by whales, dolphins and all other creatures inhabiting the seas and oceans. He loves the mysterious and is planning an expedition to a lake in the Pyrenees last explored by the Nazi. And he does not hesitate to go to faraway places such as the Maldives, or to the frosty taiga to look for remnants of an object reported to have fallen from the sky there a hundred years ago. It might after all have been an alien spacecraft…

Another thing he photographed underwater is the sculpture of a saint, discovered by Petr and his colleagues in the Moldau at the foot of a pillar of the Charles Bridge. Though the find was widely publicized at the time, Petr Klier's name was not mentioned.

He can talk for hours on end about submarine expeditions, the underwater reconstruction of the Janá?ek quay in Prague, or the whale sharks of Seychels (the film he made about them was awarded by the Seychel government). But when asked about how his involvement with photography began, he hesitates.

I got seriously involved in photography under water…though I had had a camera earlier. It all began when I was at secondary school – a classmate was doing a diving course and urged me to come and try. So I started going to the pool, though at first just to swim. Eventually, some three years later, I obtained a regular diving licence.

When I saw the immense variety and beauty of underwater sights, I remembered photography. While others were satisfied just to jump into water and look around, I wanted to share my experience, especially with my parents. I had begun taking pictures a lot earlier and decided to combine the two hobbies. It was not easy as there was no equipment available at the time… I owned a Praktika 100, then a fairly advanced camera, so I asked my father to make a water-tight box.

Did he?

He did. At that time people were used to making what they needed themselves… It's a long time ago, when I was still an apprentice. Dad made the box real strong, with a flash even, I still have it and have used it recently. But there was still something missing, probably because there was no one who could advise me.

When the communist regime had collapsed, I enrolled in a course of professional diving with Mr. Andrt's company in Chomutov called Diving station Oh?e. I started out as an ordinary diver and worked my way up to my present position - I have been in charge of underwater constructions all over the country.

It sounds like you have managed to combine your hobby with your profession…

I have, almost totally. I enjoy working under water immensely – doing useful things while enjoying my hobby gives me a feeling of deep satisfaction.

Back then Petr Andrt bought an underwater video recorder, a Sonny 800 High 8, if I remember correctly. It was quite a revolutionary model, using High 8mm tapes and inserted in a water-proof box made by the Canadian company Amphibico, a leader in the branch. The lights were purchased from Germany, I believe.

It was simply marvellous – no one was allowed even to touch it. But one day Petr could not turn up for shooting and asked me to take over. So I went to Kamencové Lake near Chomutov to try it out. By the way - the water there is wonderfully clean.

Although it was the first time I had filmed under water, I knew quite a lot about it already from observation. And I knew the basic rules of photography – don't move the camera more than necessary, float slowly, concentrate on the object and decide beforehand what you want to shoot.

Later I started doing documentation of all construction projects – underwater as well as on land. I got really hooked on it and later turned my hobby into profession – at present I run my own company dealing with underwater filming. We make videos and films for companies to order. Of course, the bit I like best is shooting under water.

Later I bought my own equipment – it was the first digital camera VX 1000 E by Sony in a box by Amphibico - I ordered it from Canada because there was nothing else quite as good.

With that I was finally able to take underwater pictures I really liked - there was appropriate lighting, depth etc.

It was also a lot easier to make copies than with the High 8 I had used previously, which was still analogue…

Turtle and photographer

Photographing and filming under water must be fairly specific…

The basics are the same as on land. You need a lot more sophisticated equipment. A major problem is that water pushes you up - you are unstable which makes it difficult to shoot detail.

In this country most water is quite dirty so there is poor visibility - 6 meters is the best you can get and that is not enough for capturing panoramas…

The prime problem to solve was how to stabilize the camera so we invented underwater stativy. At first I set the camera on two heavy cylinders, also made by my father. They were about 150 mm in diameter, large enough to store batteries in - shooting and lighting is quite energy-demanding. They were very heavy which made keeping the camera steady fairly easy. You just let the air out of your jacket, knelt down and the heavy camera kept you in place. And you know the gradual paling of water that occurs in greater depth – that had no effect on the camera… Therefore it provided for very good shooting conditions.

Later I befriended another diver, B?é?a Vaisar from Ostrava, owner of the IQ Sub company. Together we figured out how to stabilize the camera fully. In fact we invented the very first camera tripod specifically for underwater use. We used lights of different type and he designed a brand new system of folding the supporting legs so that the tripod did not cause underwater problems. To stabilize the camera along three axes while swimming, two of its legs rest on the diver's shoulders and the third one on his belly…

So it actually hangs on you…

To give you a clearer idea – I hold the camera by the handle, the upper two legs are attached to my shoulders and the third one can either rest on my belly if necessary, or it can be folded up (and not bother). The shooting is controlled by body movement. A bit like you were flying an airplane and used the whole craft to aim at the target…

It is very comfortable and I have made excellent use of it – e.g. while shooting whale sharks off the Seychelles.

You received an award for that film, didn't you?

That's right - together with the head of production Pavlína Procházková we were awarded the main prize of the SeychellesRepublic at the Seychelles International Film Festival.

We have also watched sequences you filmed in the sea off Maldives, where I was intrigued by the dance of light in the extraordinarily clean water. But even there you had to use artificial lights… Do you prefer analogue or digital shooting? You eventually process the photos digitally anyway…

As the resolution of the chips in digital cameras is still fairly low, I prefer to shoot on film or dia-film. It is more sensitive and represents reality better. You can then quite easily scan the pictures – The scanners nowadays can make a picture 500 MB or even 1.2 GB large of a slide.

And by gradual scaling of the picture I can achieve far better quality than digital recording allows. I have tried, I own a 10 MB camera, but the results were unsatisfactory.

In my opinion, the dynamic range of classical film is still much better than that of a chip - and under water the difference is noticeable. I don't mind so much on dry land, but underwater photography is exceedingly more demanding and complicated - and I believe that shooting on film gives superior results.

Shipwreck at Maldives

To get back to the dancing lights under the sea surface…

Little sunshine penetrates 10 meters into water. As you go deeper colours quickly lose intensity, so it is necessary to use lights just a couple of metres below surface. When the conditions are ideal, i.e. the water is clean and sunshine sufficient, you can shoot 5 or 6 meters below surface without having to use a flash or a spotlight. But that sunken ship off Maldives60 metres. There is nothing you can do about it – the colour spectrum is responsible. we have seen (see photo) rests 13–10 metres deep and as you can see everything is blue. Of the other colours you can see only yellow, e.g. a yellow fish or yellow oxygen-flasks worn by divers. Yellow is the deepest-visible colour - it disappears in depth of about

So that's why the oxygen-flasks for diving are yellow! Shouldn’t they also wear yellow overalls, in case they get lost and someone is looking for them?                                                                                    

Actually, they do – parts of diving suits (sleeves, hoses etc.) are painted reflective yellow - to make the divers easily visible.

Let us now digress a bit. Concerning digital animation, what advice would you give to animators trying to depict the change of lighting that takes place when you descend into depths of the sea? Is there something they could learn from?

It is difficult to describe, it always depends on the momentary situation. Take a look at the photo of the shipwreck off Maldives which is, as I have already said, 13 metres deep. In the background you can see the pstons of the ship engine sticking out towards the sea surface. As you move upwards, the blue gives way to white light. During digital processing I intentionally kept that play of light in those bluish tones. You can only learn that by experience - there are lots of underwater pictures and films available. To experience such a descent into depths, including the change of lighting, I recommend that you try free-diving.

In the Czech Republic, Mirek Hrdý has been filmed while free-diving and I believe that the sequences when the diver is sinking 30-40 metres deep are very illustrative. Those pictures were taken by a camera sliding down a rope to which it is attached and you can learn a lot from them.

Of course, it all depends on the intention of the film-maker or photographer - to catch the whole spectrum you must use extra light. If you don't, the resulting pictures will be more or less black-and-white. So when you take photos, you do it with a certain aim, depending on the situation, guided by feeling. You can use lights, take photos with flash, but I personally prefer to use spotlights rather than flash - I find it more interesting to shed light only on a certain spot.

Amateur divers generally go to warm seas with varied marine life, a common destination is the Red Sea where there are many exciting shipwrecks. You go to the north as well, e.g. to Norwegian shore. And you were one of the first to visit the so-called prohibited zone off Maldives…

Actually, I went there twice - as cameraman, on the invitation of Petr Horký. When we first went there in 2003, there was a large area north of Maldives where free-diving and tourism in general was prohibited. In fact the northern part of the archipelago was off limits for tourists.

The second time we went there the ban had been lifted, presumably in connection with the tsunami in 2004. The whole area had been affected by it and it was necessary to bring in aid, so traffic had to be allowed.

Japanese shipwreck at Maldives - the engine

Petr Horký was the very first to get traveling permission - from the President of Maldives himself. A cargo ship transported us to the area, thanks to donors, including ones from the Maldives. Once there we were provided with a fishing boat carrying compressors and all our equipment. We were really the first Europeans to set foot there since WWII. The surrounding sea is exquisitely clean and there are countless marvellous fish species and other creatures. We also mapped and photographed some as yet unexplored wrecks of ships – and that's where the picture of the ship engine comes from.

As we have already mentioned that while most people tend to be attracted to the warm southern seas, you go to the north as well, e.g. to Norway, to the Lofot Islands, in search of killer whales. And you have also made many breathtaking pictures and films there. I find the photo called »Sea and mountains« taken at Vestfjoreden (also exhibited on our website) particularly intriguing - I have shown it to several colleagues and most of them believed it to be a painting, not a photo…

Vestfjorden - Norway

That photo has obviously been digitally edited in Photoshop, but the original itself is magnificent. It is very colourful and interesting even under water. The southern seas are very popular with tourists - and therefore well-known and uninteresting. The northern seas are much more exciting – I find the enormous reserves of life particularly fascinating.

The marine life off Maldives or Seychelles is strikingly colourful, there are lots of multicoloured fish species, but the richness of life there is not so impressive. Take e.g. coral reefs whose inhabitants are not there any more - a couple of years ago El Nino struck and corals have become practically extinct …

There is not much to take photos of there that I would find really exciting - except for the whale sharks and great mants and some shipwrecks. In the north, on the other hand, wherever you go the water is full of crabs, jellyfish and seaweed swarming with life. There I spent several days filming on a few square metres and there was still plenty to shoot. That could not have happened in the Seychelles.

Ordinary humans associate diving with the image of colourful schools of fish in tropical seas. I have experienced it in Hawaii where I could observe a sunken ship from a submarine – it’s a display of colours, the sea is swarming with life there. Is the scenery of northern seas as beautiful?

In the north it is quite similar, there are also beautifully coloured fish, crabs… However, you have to look for them and keep the lights on all the time. There is a lot less light there, whether during the day or at night. Diving at night is really exciting - you can go diving even at midnight. I have done it many times, mostly in shallow waters. You can take pictures and shoot for about two hours before you have to get out of the water.

Dolphins

Then you can see swarms of crabs around piers gorging on what fishermen have discarded. Under the mola there are extensive colonies of sea anemones – food reserves. The anemones are carnivorous, by the way…

But I have been to a place in Norway where tide regularly floods a narrow river mouth so that the water flows back and forth. There is no current for about two hours a day, but the water seemed to be flowing even then. There is a vast colony of sea anemones, we spent several days filming them, there must be tens of thousands of them… It was a fantastic experience – that had not been made by people, like e.g. those piers have. The anemones can live there in such numbers thanks to the continuous supply of food provided by the constant flow of water.

My interest in Norwegian waters culminated last year, when we went there in search of kosatky that still live there in large numbers. We decided to shoot on film and took a 16mm camera. Mat?j Cibulka, a professional cameraman was shooting, my task was to take photos and provide documentation. We set out at the end of October with Karel Záme?ník and his boat. With WV Caravela, a 7-meter boat and a 9-meter tow we crossed the polar circle headed for the Lofot Islands. There was already lots of snow and people wondered why we are carrying a boat towards the north…

It was an absolutely unique experience which yielded many beautiful photos. The weather conditions were unfavourable for shooting, but excellent for photography. It is less demanding to take a static photograph; filming with greater zoom was difficult because of the waves which were up to 5 meters high.

One day there we met a herd of about 60 killer whales. It was agreed that Mat?j would go down and shoot at least one film while I would be taking photos from the boat. He swam right in the middle of the killer whales which have just come across a school of herring and were pushing them up to the surface so that the herring were jumping up into air, where they were in turn caught by seagulls. I took a photo of Mat?j swimming among those killer whales splashing the water with their tails and devouring the herring – if one of them happened to hit Mat?j he would not have survived. That was a really stunning experience and we are happy to have been able to record it. My wife (who dives too) flew in to join me and I was happy that she could celebrate her birthday by jumping into that cold water with a killer whale just a meter away from her…

You had experiences of a different kind in the Moldau river when you took part in the reconstruction of the pillars of the Charles Bridge in Prague. With your colleagues you unearthed a statue that had been lying at the bottom of the river for centuries… Although the discovery was briefly publicized by TV and other media, few people learnt who made it. What is it like to work in a river?

It is very specific, mainly because you can hardly see anything down there. As for the find made at the Charles Bridge, that happened when ing. Hynek Šorm (my long-term partner) and I were engaged to provide documentation of the state of the bridge pillars. When we had completed the assignment and submitted the report, we were further engaged to explore pillar no. 8.  During that job, about 3 meters from the foot of the pillar, Hynek came across the statue in question, which had been lying at the bottom of the Moldau for about 300 years. Perhaps the great flood in 2002 had washed away sediments and a part of the statue was uncovered. However, to give you a better idea – at the time when the statue was discovered, visibility was about 25 cm!

Drilling of the Charles bridge pillar

The exploration involved several tens of metres square, so finding the statue was a great piece of luck. If it had been covered by just a bit more sand, it would have been left unnoticed and would be still lying down there.

The winter during which that exploration was being done was extremely frosty, which was actually helpful – as a result the water was fairly clean. Visibility was up to 5 metres, which is unheard of in the Moldau.

So we were trying hard to make as much documentation as we could, including things not related to our project. One day I knew that water from a dam upstream will be let out, so I decided to stay till the evening and wait for it. Such an influx of running water washes away dirt and makes visibility a lot better. And I used the temporary good conditions to take pictures of what I considered interesting.

The resulting material is highly valuable, unique even. We covered all details of the foundation of pillar no. 8 as well as pillar no. 9 (which we were later engaged to reconstruct). / continues below

You also came across remnants of a bridge older than the Charles Bridge …

That’s right, about 7 metres downstream from the Charles Bridge we explored what is left of the pillars of the so-called Judith Bridge. It seems to have been built of red sandstone – we pulled out blocks of it, anyway. The blocks were connected by iron T-junctions which, curiously, had not got rusty after all those centuries! And that was ordinary wrought iron, not stainless steal.

The project included constructing brand new icebreakers. They are made of wood and the entire construction took place underwater. First we prepared “beds” with grids into which wooden beams were hammered.

To make the icebreakers like to the original ones we used construction methods similar to the old technologies as far as possible.

Our first task was to accomplish all underwater operations, then we drilled holes into which pilots were hammered. The pilots consisted of logs, i.e. trees rid of bark. Some had to be straightened out, which was not easy with zero visibility.

Is it true that wood does not rot underwater?

That’s right, it doesn’t. The most commonly used kind is red oak, which actually grows underwater. That centuries old wood we extracted while cleaning the area was unharmed, except for the parts at or above the surface (the river level fluctuates). What had been underwater or in the river bed appeared freshly cut… It was a very interesting job and most of it is documented on film and photographs.

You have said that you really got involved with photography after you started diving, but I often see you with a camera on dry land as well…

It is true that I became a photographer and cameraman underwater, but over time I have become fascinated by things on dry land as well. The water environment, which was new for me at the time, probably served as trigger. Nowadays I take photos and make films on land as well, because there are also many interesting thing to be found there.

Petr Klier was interviewed by Stanislav Kužel

All the pictures are property of Petr Klier